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Poster: Stealz Date: Apr 10, 2008 8:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Lyric vs. The Song

What, if any, songs do you feel are a bit of a letdown musically in comparison to the lyrics? In other words, are there any songs (in your opinion) in which the lyrical beauty supercedes the musical aspect of the song?

The one I can't get out of my head that fits into this category is Built to Last. I don't hate, nor even reall dislike the song musically. A tremendous feat in the realm of musical achievement though? Not quite. It's just a bit disappointing to me to not enjoy the song itself quite as much as I do the lyric as it stands alone.

http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/buil.html

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 10, 2008 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

I am not sure this is an answer to your question but there are two songs that have completely different meanings to me when I hear the Hunter version vs. the Grateful Dead version. Box of Rain and even more so for Franklin's Tower. Because of the music the GD versions have a much more positive vibe and I never realized how powerful the lyrics were until I heard them with Hunter's music. So I guess I would say that the in these cases the magic of the GD music can trump the beauty of the lyrics.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 10, 2008 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

Agreed!!!

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Apr 10, 2008 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

Not sure off top of my head but this AM I heard Looks Like Rain and was thinking - man the jam is great but why are the lyrics so blah. Whenever I seek a show I never say "Let me find a smokin' Looks like Rain", but then when I hear the actual tune played and jammed I almost always get into it.

A quick glance at Annotated Lyrics and I'll say Foolish Heart lyrics supercede the music for me. Lyrics are much deeper then the sort of POP style tune.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 10, 2008 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

Defn agreement again; ie, on LLR...few of Bob/Barlow songs approach Hunter for me...Musically, much better than the lyrics though...

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Poster: Scrim Date: Apr 10, 2008 11:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Looks Like Rain

I was just recently talking to my wife about this: you never hear anybody comment on LL Rain. Before a show nobody ever said "I hope they do Looks Like Rain." You rarely even hear comments about the song when it's sandwiched into a great show.

The lyrics are sappy, but I love the Jerry Jam at the end, it's a whole other song. I look forward to hearing the song just to see how Jerry closes it out, it can be as beautiful as a Stella Blue jam.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Apr 11, 2008 6:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Looks Like Rain

I love that song...Bobby and Donna nail it at the 7/18/76 show - a top version.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd76-07-18.sbd.ferguson.244.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: CharlieMiller Date: Apr 11, 2008 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Looks Like Rain

I used to say "I hope they play Looks Lime Rain" before every show I went to. It was one of my fav songs.

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Poster: swamprabbit Date: Apr 10, 2008 9:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

I agree with your assessment of Looks Like Rain. The thought of "two cats makin' love" just makes me want to vomit. But the music and overall vibe of that tune are great.
However, I disagree with you about Foolish Heart. I always like the jams and musical interplay in this tune (although the keyboards are often pretty cheesy). If anything I think the lyrics are the PROBLEM with this song. Its not that they are particularly bad - but Jerry always seemed to have problems with the singing the lyrics - they seemed too contrived and did not seem to flow right. Garcia habitually fumbled the lyrics on this tune.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Apr 10, 2008 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

I hear you on the keyboard thing - I have not heard / listened to many "Foolish Hearts". You could be right maybe the real problem is the tune and lyrics don't belong together. I'd like to hear a Hunter version of Foolish Heart.

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Poster: swamprabbit Date: Apr 10, 2008 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

For a truly awesome Foolish Heart try 5/10/91. Hornsby's keyboards on this tune are much more palatable to me and if I recall correctly - Garcia nails all of the verses! 3/19/90 is another really good version. I actually like this song it just always seemed as if Garcia had a hard time singing it.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Apr 10, 2008 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

I'm probably calling down a real hate storm on myself, but I think that almost all of Jerry's later songs suffer from this disconnect between the words and the music. And by later I mean everything after Black Muddy River and When Push Comes To Shove. Built To Last is the best example - one of Hunter's most beautiful lyrics gets buried in a plodding arrangement - and my knowledge of 90's shows is a bit sketchy, but I don't think there are a lot of great live versions of this song. I've heard some great Foolish Hearts, but the ones I've heard are all about the beautiful jam at the end, not so much the song itself. Lazy River Road and So Many Roads are of course the exceptions that prove my theory.

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Poster: Hugh Winnegin Date: Apr 10, 2008 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

I tend to agree with f80 on this one. Well put.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Apr 10, 2008 4:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

Stealz: Great question. I thought about this all afternoon and unfortunately my mind kept getting stuck on the tunes where the lyrics and music are One (Terrapin, etc., etc., etc.)

The last tune Jerry and Hunter wrote together, "Days Between," is an unbelievable marriage between haunting music and lyrics (prophetic first verse).

"...August dies...,"
--- AshesRising

Stealz: great to see you again.

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Apr 10, 2008 4:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

victim or the crime lyrics are powereful but the music to me was bland the should have performed whats become of the baby instead!!!lol!!~ :) http://www.whitegum.com/~acsa/introjs.htm?/~acsa/songfile/VICTIM.HTM

This post was modified by whirlwind dreamer 65-95 on 2008-04-10 23:25:14

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Poster: AshesRising Date: Apr 11, 2008 2:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

wwd: I know where you live!

--- AshesRising

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Poster: Stealz Date: Apr 10, 2008 6:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

Likewise, Ashes. I presume you received my email reply?

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Apr 10, 2008 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Lyric vs. The Song

wow. great question. I have to think about it.